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UnWelching – When Rogers Welchs, And How To Undo It (/unwelching)


The Short Version

– If Rogers is disputing what was offered, or refusing to honour what was offered and accepted, insist that Rogers review the original call recording and just implement the original offer, no excuses…
– see /Recording for more info about that
– you’ll need to escalate to get your situation resolved and to have that review done…
– see /Complaint for my ‘complaint escalation flowchart’ and some info about that process.


Below is the long version, that explains in detail the whole situation and means of resolution.

Purpose of This Page

I’ve gotten tired of giving individual posters on HoFo various levels of detail about their rights and how to remedy things when Rogers tries to welch on a Contract so I’ve done up this page to explain in detail the whole issue and how to fix it – that way I can just link to it and have given a detailed discussion to the matter and thus hopefully help a potential, um, victim of Rogers’ slimy business practices undo the damage and get what they lawfully deserve.

So to begin: Rogers welchs on their commitments. It’s a fact of the universe, like gravity and time. However you do have recourse to have implemented that which Rogers offered to you & was accepted by you (and which is thus a binding Contract), and I’ll describe how to do it.

Toward the end of this discussion I’ll deal with two example circumstances since they have slightly different likelihoods of success:

– the first case being where Rogers offered you a change to something on your plan/add-ons/credits, you accepted it, yet your subsequent bill is wrong; you contact Rogers to remedy it but they refuse to implement the previously offered and accepted modifications (this is the most surefire case);

– the second case being where Rogers offered you a change to something on your plan/add-ons/credits and when you called back to accept it the rep now refuses to implement the original offer.

In general you have 4 choices regarding the direction of escalation you’d like to take (and you can pretty much always give up on one level and move on to the next, too). I’ll discuss in detail the benefits and (dis)advantages of each method to help you choose the one(s) you want to pursue.

I’ll try to look at things from the standpoint of Contract Law, what’s binding on the parties, and how the CCTS might view the matter. Do note though that IANAL (yet I do have an abiding interest in law, Rogers’ ToS and escalation policies, the goings-on of the CCTS, and Consumer Rights … so I do know a little of what I speak). (And I do offer a lifetime, 100% money-back guarantee on my advice : )

The fundamental view I take on this whole welching issue this is that it doesn’t matter if a rep ‘shouldn’t have offered you whatever’, or the current rep you’re speaking to says they are ‘unable to implement what was offered’ – it’s up to Rogers to honour their side of the Contract, period.

Background: What Defines a Contract?

In the simplest, relevant terms a Contract is a written or verbal agreement, between two parties, with obligations existing on each side.

A Contract comes into existence when one party makes an offer, outlining the obligations of both parties, and the offer is accepted by the second.

A Contract can be modified at any time as long as both parties agree, and once the second party has accepted the offered changes the new Contract is now in effect and is equally as binding as was the original Contract.

In the case of dealing with Rogers: a Contract is usually entered into over the phone or in a store, yet is usually modified over the phone.

A CSR of Rogers is an Agent of Rogers, has the authority to bind Rogers to Contracts, and Rogers is responsible for upholding the Contracts into which any CSR enters.

When a CSR makes an offer to a cx, and the cx accepts the offer, a binding Contract (modification) has been effected and it is the responsibility of each party to meet their responsibilities of that (modified) Contract.

Background: The Origin of the Problem

So you’ve spoken to Rogers, they offered a change to your account and either: you previously accepted it but it’s not showing up properly on your bill, or at the time you go to accept the Contract modification Rogers is now saying you can’t have what was originally offered to you.

The most common excuses from Rogers about why they are refusing to implement an offered & accepted Contract are:
1- their ‘business policy‘ doesn’t allow for your plan + credits (or whatever), and the previous rep ‘shouldn’t have offered you what they did’, or
2 – the ‘cx-account system‘ won’t let the rep enter all of the original offer onto your account, or
3 – the ‘billing system‘ is programmed to not apply all your credits on each monthly invoice because you have lots of credits, or you have ones that are “incompatible” with your voice plan, or
4 – the ‘details in the notes section of your account‘ are either insufficient/inaccurate, or wholly missing regarding what the first rep offered you, for the second rep to implement what you recall you were initially offered and now wish to accept.

Both the first two excuses may or may not be true but you don’t really care because it’s simply up to Rogers to fulfill that which their rep offered, and you accepted. The third is merely a computational (billing) error that Rogers is entirely responsible to remedy in some fair and equitable way. Finally, that 4th matter is easily resolved too by having Rogers review the recording of the original call to confirm your recollection.

There are rebuttals that are generally useful yet are specific to what exactly is the hold-up for you. However…

In terms of the ‘business policy‘ excuse:
—- you can just point out that “business policy” permits exceptions to be made so let’s make this one of them, and
—- never mind that “business policy” is no excuse for Rogers not doing the simply honourable thing and just implementing what was offered and accepted, and
—- … besides, the doctrine of Agency Law holds that Rog is fully and legally responsible for what its agents commit to anyway so Rogers is somply responsible for implementing the agreed-upon Contract, no excuses.

In terms of the ‘cx-account system‘ and ‘billing system‘ excuses:
—- Rogers is bound to uphold what the rep offered and the cx accepted, regardless of any computer problems they may have, and
—- the ‘cx-account system‘ that supposedly is refusing to let a Rogers rep implement the offered and accepted changes is a construction of Rogers’ own hand – thus they are inarguably responsible for making sure that it works correctly and that the account information in that system is accurately representing that to which a CSR and cx have agreed
—- same goes for the ‘billing system
—- it is the role of both the ‘cx-account‘ and ‘billing‘ systems to implement what is offered by a rep and accepted by a cx; it is not the role of the cx to accept only the things that the buggy ‘cx-account’ or ‘billing’ systems permit, without regard for what a rep actually offered and a cx accepted. Or another way of looking at this is: the ‘cx-account’ or ‘billing’ system is obviously broken since it is not accurately implementing what was offered by a rep and accepted by a cx. Rogers should promptly remedy this programming flaw, and in the meantime ensure that the cx suffers no unfavourable economic consequence of this now known, reproducible and predictable flaw in one of Rogers’ computer systems.

In terms of the ‘details in the notes section of your account‘ excuse:
—- What exactly the initial rep offered you can be very easily determined – all you need to do is insist that Rogers to “review the recording of the call” that Rogers made at the time you called in! I have a page devoted entirely to how to achieve this so I’d direct you to just jump right over there: /Recording
—- After the call-recording has been reviewed: if your recollection of what was offered is correct then Rogers should now receive your acceptance of what the rep offered. Case closed, and get back on with your life.

See?! So not only is the issue not your problem to solve, the issue is definitely Rogers’ problem to solve!

Background: Remedies Available to You

Depending on the source of any remaining problem (‘business policy’ or ‘computer system’) different solutions are available.

1) For mere ‘business policy’ roadblocks a rep or manager (or OoP or CCTS) can impose/implement an exception. Case closed, and get back on with your life.

2) ‘Computer system’ limitations are ostensibly more difficult to solve because the computer is going to bill you what it’s programmed to do (or just not accept details of the offered and accepted changes), and Rogers has made it abundantly clear that they have no intention of remedying the underlying software flaws that cause this type of problem, even though the issue is widely-known to reps (and in the case of incorrect billing errors the identities of the affected cx’s can be easily data-mined).

Nevertheless, Rogers owes you an equitable remedy.

So some possible remedies come to mind here:
(But first you need to know ‘how much remedy’.)
a) In the case of ‘cx-account system’ problems: where the rep cannot instate onto your account all the promised features or credits, have them instate all the features and whatever credits the ‘cx-account system’ will permit, and also note the monthly $ amount of all the credits which they cannot. That’s how much your bill will be incorrect by, every month.
b) Otherwise (in the case of ‘billing system’ problems) you presumably know already by how much each monthly bill is incorrect.

The remedies:
1
)
So now just inform Rogers that they can work-around this known flaw in their computer system by issuing you a one-time credit, for:
that monthly overbilling-amount, multiplied by the number of months remaining in your CP.
– So if your bill is wrong by $10/mo, and you have 33 months left in your CP then Rogers issues you a one-time credit of $330 (+ tax). Be sure that your refund includes past, wrong bills too (yet realize that Rogers ToS say they’ll only go back 90 days so if you want to go back farther it’s a different, separate battle there); or

2) You can try to negotiate with Rogers for some other/different mix of plan/add-ons/credits, that:
– gives you at least as much of everything that you had in the original offer, and
– that can have suitable credits applied so that the total you pay each month and shows up on your bill is no higher than what was in the original offer.
This will of course take a cooperating rep who knows well Rogers’ plans, add-ons, credits … and the limitations of them. I like this outcome myself because for all your trouble you end up with the same price yet usually get more stuff than what was even originally offered; or

3) Rogers (or maybe you) suggest that you give them back any subsidized phone, they let you cancel your Contract entirely, and you walk away without paying any nasty ECF. Do note however that you are not required to accept this remedy if you would prefer to have the originally-offered Contract upheld and put into effect. (Consider if the roles were reversed – upon discovering that you’ve committed yourself to a Contract that was surprisingly expensive and you contact Rogers to say that you’d like to return the phone and walk away without paying any ECF – what do you think that Rogers’ response to your offer would be, eh?)

So see: not only is this Rogers’ problem to solve but you even know how they can do it. Thus any whimpering from reps about ‘I can’t do anything to fix this’ falls on deaf ears – you know that they can fix it and you know how they can fix it, and nothing less than a proper fix is acceptable!

Now Looking At The Two Example Cases

The reason I have presented two example cases is this:

– in the first case, where a cx has completely accepted a modification to the Contract and discovered later that they are being incorrectly billed, incontrovertibly a breach of Contract by Rogers has occurred and IMO the CCTS would absolutely uphold the cx’s claim to their offered and accepted Contract (modifications);
-however in the second case some uncertainty may exist about whether the cx has actually accepted the offered Contract modifications, or whether Rogers rescinded the offered modifications before the cx accepted them; thus it’s uncertain if the cx can prevail in their desire to have the original offer implemented (and for all I personally know the CCTS may just deem a cx who has called back to accept the offer, to have in fact accepted it anyway).

The second case can be with either strong or weak – let me illustrate which is which in this second case by describing both a strong position and a weak position:

Common to both a weak position and strong position:
—- Candice, a cx, calls in and speaks to Rebecca, a CSR
—- Rebecca offers Candice a sweet modification to her plan/add-ons/credits
—- Candice says she’ll think about it and will get back to Rogers with her decision, and ends the call

Weak position for the cx:
—- Candice calls Rogers back later and speaks to CSR Raul
—- Candice says that she wants to further discuss the offer that Rebecca previously made
—- Raul looks into the details of the offer that Rebecca made, and right then and there says to Candice that there’s no way that he can or will implement what Rebecca offered
—- Raul has arguably now rescinded the offer, before it was accepted
—- Since Candice didn’t explicitly accept the offer before it was arguably rescinded her case for ‘unwelching‘ the offer is weaker (but maybe not hopeless!)

Strong position for the cx:
—- Candice calls Rogers back later and speaks to CSR Rick
—- Candice says at the very beginning of the call that she accepts the offer that was previously made (by Rebecca)
—- At that very millisecond the offered Contract modification has been fully accepted
—- And that acceptance has been communicated to Rogers
—- So since Candice accepted the offer before Rick rescinded it the Contract has been IMO incontrovertibly modified

In all cases though, for any hope of the cx getting the original offer implemented they’re going to have to escalate.

Escalating – The Key to Getting Your Remedy

There are various paths that one can take to escalate their problem with Rogers. In generally-increasing order of seriousness they are:

1– Rogers’ suggested, normal, slow, painful escalation path, or
2– contact a Social Media member to plead for assistance, or
3– jump directly to contacting Rogers’ OoP, or
4– simply file a CCTS complaint

Excepting the omission of the Social Media path you can see, by way of a handy-dandy flowchart, an overview of the whole escalation process here:
/Complaint; that page also has info about pros & cons of different escalation paths and a detailed complaint-escalation flowchart guide.

So about these 4 methods of escalation…

1) Rogers’ Suggested Path

– this is the least-recommended path to follow because it involves so many layers of semi-useful people at Rogers (esp “managers”, who often don’t return calls, or place the cx firmly into Voicemail Jail).
– and simply because Rogers suggests it in actuality it in no way forces the cx to follow this path
Recommendation: DEFINITELY NOT
—- it tends to be slow and frustrating and is just playing the scummy Rogers game by the scummy Rogers rules, and
—- you often end up having to escalate further anyway

2) Social Media Plea

– this is probably both the easiest and quickest way to get your issue escalated within Rogers
– but only as long as the Social Media member deigns to offer you their assistance
– you’ll need to contact one of them (or get noticed); to do this you can do one of:
—- send them a DM (direct message) via twitter; send to @RogersMary
—- post a new thread to HoFo (free registration required first though) describing your issue, and hope that a Social Media member a) sees it and b) deigns your issue worthy of their assistance
—- if you have an account with HoFo (or want to register one) you can send an a PM (private message) directly to user RogersMary
—- or send your pleading email to … nevermind, they don’t want to let you email them (how’s that for helpful, eh?!)
Recommendation: NOT REALLY
—- this is just feeding into Rogers’ attempts to band-aid over (cover up) the scummy way Rogers handles their welching;
—- however it can be the fastest and easiest way to get a remedy so it’s understandable if some people, who just want the pain to go away, choose this ‘lazy’ method.
—- What usually happens is that your issue gets handed over to OoP who actually deals with resolving your issue

3) Contact OoP Directly

– now you’re getting somewhere useful!
– contact info for OoP is here: /Contact
– review the escalation flowchart (found at /Complaint), and especially read the section titled “Managerial Bypass” since that is in effect what you are doing
Recommendation: SOMEWHAT
—- OoP is pretty decent about recognizing Rogers’ legal obligations and implementing them, once you’re talking to a human;
—- Do expect up to 2 weeks from the time you register a complaint with them using their webform, until you ‘re talking/emailing a human (yes, this in spite of the Rogers /Complaint webpage saying (emphasis mine) “you’ll be contacted by an advisor from this group within 48 hours after receiving your complaint with all supporting information.”
—- though you can also try phoning in your complaint; the OoP ph number is listed here: /Contact
—- Consider though, that if OoP is always the one to unwelch the Contracts that Rogers tries to welch on then Rogers will probably just keep welching since much of the time they’re likely successful at getting away with it.
—- The amount of effort for choosing this escalation path is moderate – you might need to fight or argue with OoP to have them accept your complaint (if you wisely skipped the often-useless ‘talk-to-a-Manager’ step that is part of #1 – Rogers’ Suggested Path, above) but if they do accept it you should hopefully prevail in short order.

4) File a complaint with CCTS

– Ah, the big guns!
– Read the CCTS pages on how they accept, consider and resolve complaints; the top-level list of these pages is here:
http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints
– If you file a complaint and it gets to the “Recommendation” stage you should then familiarize yourself with the CCTS’s Procedural Code so that you understand your rights and responsibilities – including that you must formally “accept” their Recommendation (assuming you like it) for it to become binding upon Rogers
– Note however that a complaint filed with CCTS is the slowest method of receiving resolution (in total it can take 1 to 2 months), though it can be the final, decisive word and also CCTS can force Rogers to agree to your claim so it has the benefit of skipping all the other possibly-useless escalation steps to get directly to ‘the final answer’
– An advantage of going this route is that if your complaint is accepted for consideration by CCTS it immediately starts to cost Rogers money, out of pocket (since 1/3 of the CCTS budget is based on the number, and severity, of the complaints that are received relating to each individual carrier)! This can be satisfying to know since the reason you’re there is that Rogers tried to welch on a Contract and there’s nothing like having Rogers pay for trying to treat you in this way.
– Another advantage of the CCTS-complaint route is that the CCTS annually tallies all the complaints they get, by type and by carrier, and they publish these numbers in their Annual Report. As well the CCTS keeps track of trends in complaints (e.g. they comment on these trends in their Annual Reports). So if Rogers (and especially other carriers too) start a new cx-rights-depriving tactic then CCTS can advise cx’s how to avoid this new tactic … but only if they know about it! (It’s helpful too if complaint counts are high.)
Recommendation: MOST RECOMMENDED
—- The rather nice aspect of this method is that once you file your complaint (and you can do it over the phone: 1-888-221-1687, but read over that CCTS ‘Complaints’ page first so you’re ready!) you just sit back and let CCTS do all the dealing with Rogers;
—- but it’s a little bit of work to get all your info together;
—- CCTS will keep in touch with you to keep you involved;
—- however this has the most plodding pace of progress (simple matters like an unwelching should probably take no more than a month);
—- emailed complaints seem to take a week to become ‘accepted’ for investigation but it’s difficult to ensure you have all the info that CCTS needs right off, so maybe use the webform method instead (2 days turnaround?) or just phone in your complaint
—- http://www.ccts-cprst.ca/en/complaints is the place to start


ForeGround: Putting It All Together and Into Action

So now you know:
– the status of your Contractual relationship and the strength of your position
– what path of /Complaint escalation you want to take, and the pros & cons of each

I tend to recommend on things like this that:
– people in rush try #2 – Social Media
– otherwise go with #3 – OoP
– unless you want to play hardball with Rogers, then you should just go straight to #4 – CCTS

And be patient, no matter which escalation path your choose.

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