RogersWatch @ WordPress

Recording of Calls (By Rogers & Cx’s) (/recording)

Rogers’ website has no SWC for /recording but it’s an important topic, so here’s mine.

1) Usefulness:
– Knowing that Rogers records calls and keeps those recordings (or “tapes” as some people like to search : ) can help a cx resolve disputes about what a rep promised a cx, but didn’t deliver (by the cx instructing Rogers to review their recording of a past call). It’s also potentially very valuable to be able to prove that a rep never informed a cx that a CP was going to renew when the cx, months later, gets an unpleasant surprise to that effect.

– Because the calls are recorded and available for later review is exactly why I prefer to interact with Rogers’ reps only by phone (versus in-person at stores, or even by email).

– ‘Secretly’ recording your own calls to (or calls you receive from) Rogers is entirely lawful (if you’re located in Canada when you do it) and these recordings can be helpful to have in the cx’s possession: to refer to, to refresh one’s memory … or just in case Rogers ‘loses’ their recording of the cx’s call.

– A cx might have the right to demand that Rogers provide the cx with copies of all call recordings made by Rogers.

– One ‘ghetto’ way for a cx to record their calls without having to acquire any additional equipment might be this:
—- if you have a notebook or PC that has a built in microphone
—- and your phone (cellphone or landline) has a speakerphone feature
—- you can place the call while on speakerphone and record it using the notebook PC’s microphone?!
—- under Windows you can use the free, built-in program called “Sound Recorder” (usually under StartButton/Programs/Accessories/Entertainment)
—- or there are tons of free apps on the net that will do this recording for you too I’m sure
—- test out how well this works for you, of course, before making your important call; placement of the phone and mic recording levels will make a difference; under XP: to adjust mic recording levels go into ControlPanel and then SoundsAndAudioDevices, click tab Audio and in section “SoundRecording” click the Volume button)

2) Rogers notification of cx calls being recorded:
When a cx is calling regular Rogers Customer Care, Data, Tech Support, etc, the cx is typically informed that Rogers is recording the call by way of a message played to the cx, right before the cx enters the queue to speak to a rep, as well for what purpose/s the recording is being made (“for quality and training purposes” Rogers says, whatever that exactly means).

Rogers is required by the Privacy Commissioner to advise you of their recording the call, and for what purposes it will be used:
Guidelines for Recording of Customer Telephone Calls
http://www.priv.gc.ca/fs-fi/02_05_d_14_e.cfm

2B) Funny note:
#unlawful
When dealing with the OoP one may get a call from the OoP rep, or you might call into the OoP to speak to a rep. However I’ve never been notified of any call recording going on when dealing on the phone with OoP reps … though I would be very, very surprised if those calls WEREN’T being recorded. So I expect that Rogers is in breach of PIPEDA law about notifying a cx every time a call is recorded. (Somebody ought look further into this one day, IMO.)

#breach
The Rogers “Privacy Policy” (PP) is incorporated into The Contract by virtue of being referenced by “any current Rogers document”. If the PP says that Rogers is/will comply with all applicable privacy laws then Rogers contravening PIPEDA puts them in breach of contract. (Somebody ought look further into this one day, IMO.)

3) Rogers’ Retention & Retrieval of Their Recordings
– I have been advised by a Rogers RET manager that they keep the recordings for 21 days, when I specifically asked.

– I have been also advised by the office of the Privacy Officer at Rogers that they keep them forever.

– Somebody here is obviously ignorant or lying.

– Expect that you can ask of Rogers that a past call you’ve made can have its recording reviewed by a Rogers manager for at least 21 days after the fact (e.g. when a rep doesn’t properly implement what was agreed upon during a call). But my own wager would be that Rogers keeps the recordings forever.

– This review of a recording can take up to approx 7 calender days to occur, IME.

– All of this (retrievability of recordings) definitely applies if you have given the rep your account number or cellphone number and the rep pulls up your account info.

– If you are not yet a Rogers cx (or are just calling up fishing for info) and don’t provide the rep with a phone number then AIUI an “interaction #” won’t be automatically created for your call. I think that having an interaction # created is key to being able to summon from Rogers a recording of a call that is not tied to any specific account. To create such an interaction # the rep needs a phone number, so since you don’t yet have (or want to divulge) a Rogers cell number you can give them any phone number you choose – use your home number if you want, or any other number that you’ll remember in the future. If the need for reference to a recording of that call should arise I would expect that Rogers can retrieve it by way of the phone number + date/time, or even just the interaction # alone.

4) Cx Making Recordings of Calls

– Yes, you can do this and you don’t have to inform the rep that you are recording!

– A person (acting in their capacity as a private person), and who is located in Canada, can make a recording of any call with anyone as long as that person is a party to the call.

– That person is under NO legal obligation to:
—- advise the other parties on that call that that person is recording the call, nor to
—- have to seek the /permission/ of the other parties to that call, to do the recording.

Do note though that if I were asked if I was recording a call (and I was in fact so doing) and even though I don’t have to tell the other party that I am recording I would nonetheless be truthful and say yes. (Or at least say to the other person that it’s absolutely not relevant and then not answer the question … but I wouldn’t lie about it, since if that recording is ever called into evidence your having been recorded telling a lie to the other party just doesn’t look good on you and could possibly disqualify admission of that recording).

This snippet from Canada’s Criminal Code will hopefully help clarify the matter about the overall legality of recording calls:

Interception

184. (1)
Every one who, by means of any electro-magnetic, acoustic, mechanical or other device, wilfully intercepts a private communication is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.

Saving provision
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to

(a) a person who has the consent to intercept, express or implied, of the originator of the private communication or of the person intended by the originator thereof to receive it;
[…]

http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/cc/cc.184.html (Electronic Frontier Foundation, Canada)

(Or semi-officially, this MASSIVE HTML page:
http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/rsc-1985-c-c-46/latest/rsc-1985-c-c-46.html#sec184subsec1)

Or for a detailed discussion of this legal issue, see here:
http://www.legaltree.ca/node/908

5) Cx Asking for Copies of Recordings from Rogers
– Can a cx demand that Rogers provide the cx with copies of all call recordings between Rogers and that cx?

– I would posit that yes, a cx can demand this.

– I would make this request under the auspices of a ‘privacy request’ – seeking copies of your private information of which Rogers has possession.
—- i.e. AIUI Rogers is responsible for providing a cx with all records of private information on that cx, that are in Rogers’ possession, upon demand
—- FWICT these call recordings would fall under the definition of records containing (possibly) private information of the cx’s
—- so cx can demand a copy of them

– I do not know if anyone has attempted this type request of Rogers or what any outcome was. If you do please let me know how it turns out!

The contact info for the Rogers Privacy Office is in my /contact page.

Update: 2010/11/26: Corroborating info re a cx seeking their call recordings:

The Act provides an individual with the right of access to their information, not merely files or records. Pipeda Case Summary #252, NWF.

“record”

“record” includes any correspondence, memorandum, book, plan, map, drawing, diagram, pictorial or graphic work, photograph, film, microform, sound recording, videotape, machine-readable record and any other documentary material, regardless of physical form or characteristics, and any copy of any of those things.

http://www.pipeda.info/a/2.html

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4 Comments »

  1. I had an issue with Rogers. I called back claiming I was going to cancel my contract and go to telus. I was immediately put thru to a supervisor.

    He told me “they would do anything to keep my buisness”

    “I will give you any phone you want” he said.

    I picked the phone I wanted and thanked him, he told me it was no biggie, just a token of their appreiciation for my 2 years of dedicated buisness.

    To my surprise, my next bill came with over $200 in charges for the phone. I called to get the charges removed and was told that I had no proof he didn’t mention the charges. I asked for them to listen to the recording because it would clearly show I was not lying.

    I was told that was not possible because Rogers does not use the Recordings for that purpose. I was told they were still on file, but would not be listened to.

    So I filed with the BBB and am still awaiting.

    Moral of my story: Make your own recording! The recordings Rogers makes will not be available to you!

    Comment by jman — 2010/10/22 @ 11:36 | Reply

    • Hi and thanks for sharing your experience!

      What happened with you is that you got a BAD rep – one who either didn’t know better, or lied to you. Rogers does use the recordings to verify what a rep has promised to a cx – and this I know because I’ve had it done a couple of times.

      If I were you I’d contact the OoP – see my escalation flowchart on page:
          /Complaint
      but note that the phone number for OoP on that doc is outdated so instead use the one listed on
          /Contact

      (But as you mentioned, it’s helpful to have your own records … but just in case Rogers loses theirs.)

      Good luck!

      Comment by RogersWatch — 2010/10/22 @ 13:32 | Reply

  2. I remember the recording saying “This call may be recorded for training purposes…. which means not all calls are recorded.
    Also, keep in mind rogers does a lot of outsourcing as well. Very possible some locations record while some dont.

    To record an interaction number, there must be an account. The way I used to get around this was to make a temporary account (been many years) if something needed to be offered that wasnt 100% sure I wanted. This was done one of two ways (from my recollection).
    1) start the new activation process, but dont complete it. Number becomes active
    2) Payasyougo account, and transfer me back to the rep is another route to go.

    Now also keep in mind that at telus and fido they have extention #’s. I have my trademark line that makes the reps remember me, and once I get the extension, Im golden. I actually have a file of Fido rep extention #’s and a few Telus.

    Also, if you are recording the conversation, MAKE SURE on tape they say their employee number and name (or just number). A few years back, I got burned on my $1,100 bill. I had a recording and the rep had said “Im sorry but I cannot validate that the person on the recording is a Rogers rep, as they did not say their employee number.” <– I had 3 reps on tape. None said their employee number.

    Ive heard you can request all the notes in your account for 8$ or something. Whether it is true or not, Im not sure as Ive never done it myself.

    Comment by Joaquim — 2010/11/17 @ 08:42 | Reply


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